Hello and questions!

Hi Brian,

welcome here !

Do you know , that Australia is the "paradise" of Yamaha TT 350 ?
In no land of the world , is this bike sold so long (till 2000).

You said that you owned a '90 TT 350.
That will be typ 3 GJ ? (First letters of frame code)

I 've also a TT 350 ('92/ 4DR) and my newest bike is a australian TT 250 ('91/3DC).
The little TT 250 was only in Australia and Japan avaiable.
Now I found s.o. who can send parts if necessary.

You can give me some informations if possible :

In Australia , the TT 350 was sold till 2000. Since 1996 the frame was coloured in blue.
Can you find out, how the modeltype is called ? (picture)

.. and at last your problem.

I think that's not normal , that the bottom of the frame crashes on earth.
I've take a look at my TT , and in the rear swing arm, there is a lttle way, like on yours.

How to adjust the spring , our guy "trischter" can tell you better than me, because of my english. :?

Front fork :
What oil do you use ? (SAE 10)
In Germany we can get other (harder) springs for the TT 350.
They cost about 135.- AU$ (80 Euro).
May be that other oil will help you.

regards,
Peter

This Model is called ?

... and what time is it in Australia yet ? (19.00 - 20.00 ?)

Hi again!
The thing with the car-valve-springs will truly work, yes, but as you say, it´s making the spring more progressiv, not even harder! When you´re weighing 95kilo you´re in need of harder springs. First of all...
when you´re grounding even the frame (I guess, with the skid-plate?), you need more compression-damping, which you can reach with thicker oil (15 is already very thick as you recognized, I wouldn´t take more than 20, but, depending on your temperatures down there, even that might be to thin) or (better, but much more work) smaller holes in the damper.
With the sealings I once had the same problem: they´d give up after each off-road-ride! Why? The rubber around the fork has holes on the lower end, that air and also water can get out when the fork is diving in.
The holes on my rubbers were to high above the lower end so that all the dirt got in an never out again. I changed to other shockboots with the holes on the lowest rib and everything was ok (the holes were in height of the downtube not on the stanchion-level, so that the dirt, water and mud fell of and got out down there).
Ah, and I mounted dustseals from a BMW that whiped the dust and mud from the stanchion so that it could not reach the oilsealrings.
Freeplay in the rear linkage is almost normal, even not wanted. If you want to repair it, you will have to change all bearings, all bushes and everything. As you already figured out, there is no play in the single bearings, but summed all together you get around 5mm at the wheelaxle.
I would leave it until freeplay at the axle reaches about 20mm, lubricate the bearings with real thick grease and won´t care about it, because the bearings are only available as original Yamaha-parts and are not really cheap...:-(

Hello Brian,

I have a xt350, and although our bikes have differences, the suspension is poor for off road use on both. Look at this link http://www.xt350.de/viewtopic.php?t=2056.

These guys have help me quite a bit. I just ordered and received new front springs from cannonracecraft, here in the states, and I'm about to install them for riding on Sunday. I told them my weight, how I ride, the make model of my bike, and sent the stock spring in. I hope they work well. Or like Don Pedro said, ebay.de has springs available sometimes; however, technical German is difficult for me to translate. I will try the google translate thanks for the tip.

Welcome to the forum.

Jeff

To live with it is one possibility, the other is to buy another rearshock.
maybe you use the search-function here at xt350.de with the expression "federbein".
Lots of the guys with the XTs use rearshocks from different XT600-modells, the Öhlins from the TT600S (italian-made from 94-??) fits also and also in the tt350 with only little modifications.

I think 15W fork oil is too thick (forks too harsh). You should definetely get stiffer springs. Race-tech in California has a selection of springs, they also have a cartridge fork emulator that is supposed to work wonders. Yoe can also play with the fork oil level. As far as the shock goes, you can't really do much to the stock shock. You could consider getting an ohlins or a WP for the TT, setup right, it will change your life on the TT, but for a price. Any way you look at it, you should never be able to bottom out the frame on flat ground. Also, make sure you're not running air in the forks as it put's a lot of pressure on the seals and eventually blows them.

Klaus

Oh Jesses, now goes the thong in english loose...
In german i posted lots about this theme, only a few words in english:
you can´t avoid bottoming the ground by use of harder springs! It´s maybe hard to understand, but you have to divide the work of a damper (rear or front) into the work of the spring and on the other hand in damping. One has only little to do with the other!
First you´ll have to ensure that you have the right spring: it´s ok, if you sit on the bike and have 2/3 of the travel left.
Then it´s up to adjust the damping: first compression, then rebound.
This works well if dampning is so high that the bike doesn´t bottom out in any case, which is a procedure that can only be done by testing on a track (not really only, but it´s the best because you have constant conditions lap by lap)
It´s a little bit of work, but it´s worth it.
As far as I´m informed, Race-Tech does not have fork emulators for the simple fork of the TT, but only for cartridge-forks.
Again: bottoming out is a matter of damping, not of the spring!
ans: if you use harder springs (would be neccesary for anything about 70kilos driver-weight), you also need thicker oil (because the harder springs have more influence on the rebound) or smaller holes in the damper. Smaller holes are the better alternative, becauso you can use thinner oil. Thick oil has the disadvantage, that it changes viscosity too much if it gets hot [compared to cold oil;- the damping will change too much (decreases) when it´s getting hot]

Zitat von trischter

Oh Jesses, now goes the thong in english loose...
In german i posted lots about this theme, only a few words in english:
you can´t avoid bottoming the ground by use of harder springs! It´s maybe hard to understand, but you have to divide the work of a damper (rear or front) into the work of the spring and on the other hand in damping. One has only little to do with the other!
First you´ll have to ensure that you have the right spring: it´s ok, if you sit on the bike and have 2/3 of the travel left.
Then it´s up to adjust the damping: first compression, then rebound.
This works well if dampning is so high that the bike doesn´t bottom out in any case, which is a procedure that can only be done by testing on a track (not really only, but it´s the best because you have constant conditions lap by lap)
It´s a little bit of work, but it´s worth it.
As far as I´m informed, Race-Tech does not have fork emulators for the simple fork of the TT, but only for cartridge-forks.
Again: bottoming out is a matter of damping, not of the spring!
ans: if you use harder springs (would be neccesary for anything about 70kilos driver-weight), you also need thicker oil (because the harder springs have more influence on the rebound) or smaller holes in the damper. Smaller holes are the better alternative, becauso you can use thinner oil. Thick oil has the disadvantage, that it changes viscosity too much if it gets hot [compared to cold oil;- the damping will change too much (decreases) when it´s getting hot]

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Trischter,

I hate to come in here as a newcomer and try to be a know it all. I bought my TT in 1987 and have raced it from late '87 until 1994 in many offroad desert races and quite a few enduro's as well, in that time I have spend many hours talking with suspension technicians and other racers about bike setup. I have also spend endless nights setting up my bike, correct sag, spring rate, oil weight and oil level. Brian says he weighs 95kg. The stock springs are definetely too weak for a 95kg offroad rider, therefore I think he needs stiffer springs. Also, If you go too heavy with the frok oil the fork becomes too hard (too harsh) and it will pound you to death every time you hit a small bump. So with the right spring rate the, right oil, right oil level (to keep from bottoming) and the right spring preload spacer you can keep the fork from bottoming out. Now, I just spoke with Race-Tech this past week about their cartridge fork emulator. The emulator is a stack of valves that goes on top of the damping rod in a damping rod fork (such as in the TT). It gets sandwiched in between the damping rod and the spring, and the original damping holes get drilled out to a much larger size. The Emulator valve stack is adjustable and will act as your oil passage valve much like in a modern cartridge fork. Hence the term Cartridge Fork Emulator. It allows you to fine tune your fork for the big hits and also make it plush (soft) for the small bumps. Race-tech also said that it will make a huge difference in the handling of the motorcycle, it will fix your outdated fork. They also said that you should run 10w oil. And yes, they do have an emulator for the TT, and I'm sure for the XT as well. I'm going on a 5 day offroad only ride in Utah in April and will have an emulator and a .42kg spring from them (my weight is about 56kg). Brian probably needs a .46kg spring.

I feel qualified on the subject and hope I did not upset anyone.

Klaus

I just changed my front fork springs from stock for a 1987 xt 350 to the ,46kg spring, thanks to CannonRaceCraft, and had a brilliant time compared to the original springs. I'm currently using 5 weight fork oil and 6psi air. Keep in mind I ride mostly trails and trails with 'whoops'. The front forks, now, don't dive under braking, and is stiff enough so I don't get flung over the handlebars in sharp turns.
The back monoshock I wrote down the setting I used directly onto the swingarm. I'll let you know if you're interested.

I'll give this advice to anyone to make this change who rides under the same conditions as I do, as I couldn't guarantee good results for street only.

I went with two friends with newer bikes, and I was almost able to keep up with the KX250(two stroke). But more than that, I was able to have a good time without worrying about avoiding larger bumps in the road.

Zitat von Santa

Trischter,

I hate to come in here as a newcomer and try to be a know it all. I bought my TT in 1987 and have raced it from late '87 until 1994 in many offroad desert races and quite a few enduro's as well, in that time I have spend many hours talking with suspension technicians and other racers about bike setup. I have also spend endless nights setting up my bike, correct sag, spring rate, oil weight and oil level. Brian says he weighs 95kg. The stock springs are definetely too weak for a 95kg offroad rider, therefore I think he needs stiffer springs. Also, If you go too heavy with the frok oil the fork becomes too hard (too harsh) and it will pound you to death every time you hit a small bump. So with the right spring rate the, right oil, right oil level (to keep from bottoming) and the right spring preload spacer you can keep the fork from bottoming out. Now, I just spoke with Race-Tech this past week about their cartridge fork emulator. The emulator is a stack of valves that goes on top of the damping rod in a damping rod fork (such as in the TT). It gets sandwiched in between the damping rod and the spring, and the original damping holes get drilled out to a much larger size. The Emulator valve stack is adjustable and will act as your oil passage valve much like in a modern cartridge fork. Hence the term Cartridge Fork Emulator. It allows you to fine tune your fork for the big hits and also make it plush (soft) for the small bumps. Race-tech also said that it will make a huge difference in the handling of the motorcycle, it will fix your outdated fork. They also said that you should run 10w oil. And yes, they do have an emulator for the TT, and I'm sure for the XT as well. I'm going on a 5 day offroad only ride in Utah in April and will have an emulator and a .42kg spring from them (my weight is about 56kg). Brian probably needs a .46kg spring.

I feel qualified on the subject and hope I did not upset anyone.

Klaus

Nothing I wouldn´t agree...;-)
I just wanted to say that it´s no way to avoid bumbing on the ground by ONLY the use of stiffer springs. It´s always neccesary, to adjust the damping too, and it´s always neccesary to use springs with a correct rate (many of the guys over here just use harder/stiffer springs from accesories-dealers which are not adapted to their weight (the springs;- not the dealers...;-) ) and then wonder, why the bike still touches down hard after jumps if they don´t adjust the damping with the new spring too.
The race-tech emulators are available in germany for several years now and some time ago i had a look at the catalogue, but could not find ones fittig the tt-fork.
Maybe the german importer offers only emulators for actual modells or streetbikes, I still have a White Power USD-Fork to be adapted to my TT;- if I could only find the time...

Hi,

ich habe mein technisches Wörterbuch gerade nicht da. :?

emulators ?-- was ist das ?

Irgendein zusätzliches Ventil ?

Peter

Ya, kwasi.
Im prinzip iss das nix anderes, als ein Dämpfer, wie er inner Kartuschegabel steckt. wir hamm ja nur das Rohr mit den Löchern drin, wo das Dämpferöl durchmuss, inner Kartuschengabel steckt ein richtig ausgefeiltes Dämpferchen mit verschiedenen Bohrungen für Durck- und Zugstufe, die von nem Scheibchenpaket verschlossen sind. Die Scheibchen sind pyramidenförmig übereinandergestapelt und ziemlich dünn. Will das Öl da duch, musses die Pyramidenscheiben anheben bzw wegdrücken. Und durch die Pyramidenform wird es immer schwerer, je mehr der Scheibchen weggedrücktwerden müssen.
Damit erreicht man eine geringe Dämpfung und gutes Ansprechverhalten, wenn man nur nen Kieselstein überrollt, je heftiger es aber wird, umso stärker dämpft es auch. Durch die Form der Pyramide bzw die Dicke der Plätchen oder auch durch die Vorspannung selbiger kann man die Dämpfung verändern, ausserdem gibt es mit nem Nadelventil verschlossene ByPass-Bohrungen, mit denen man schonmal ne Grunddurchflussmenge einstellen kann.

Also, ne WP USD waere die richtige loesung fuer die TT. Worauf wartest du denn?

Die Race-Tech Emulators kosten hier in USA ca. $160.00. Ich koennte moeglicherweise welche besorgen und nach Deutschland schicken. Oder welche im Juni persoenlich mitbringen. Urlaub in Mittelfranken.

Klaus

Zitat von Santa

Urlaub in Mittelfranken.

Na, iss ja hier gleich in der gegend. Im Juni bin ich eh mal n Wochenende in Roth...
Tja, wieso nicht UPS? Ich hab mir ne Menge arbeit mit der gabel der TT gemacht und komme mit der ganz gut zurecht, wenngleich es natürlich kein Vergleich zu der kayaba in der Belgarda-TT iss. Aber bei meinen 60Kilos braucht man nicht viele Teile zum zaubern.
Da ich die 350er eh nur 3-4x im Jahr fahre, ist mir der Aufwand, da vorne alles umzubauen, zu hoch. Im Sommer hab ich dazu eh keine Zeit und im Winter isses mir einfach zu kalt und da die kleine da eh steht, stört mich die nichteingebaute WP-Gabel halt nicht.
Da ich mitm Satz Gabelsimmeringe, ner garnitur Lenkkopflager und nem Kumpel, der wegem Gabelschaftrohr mal die Drehbank anwirft, hinkäme, denke ich, ich würde die gabel nem Racetech Emulator vorziehen. Meine Befürchtungen laufen aber ausserdem auch dahin, dass mit der gabel die schwache Hinterhand wieder stärker auf sich aufmerksam machen würde. Da ist zwar n WP-Federbein in den Papieren eingetragen, das aber nie drin war. Das Öhlins der Belgarda will ich ihr nicht entreisen, auch nicht leihweise und vom Spenderrahmen der Gabel (500er Cross-KTM von 86/87) gibts zwar nochn WP-Dämpfer für hinten, der hat aber völlig unpassende Aufnahmen und ist etwas zu lang. Um da was zu ändern, bräuchte ich aber eher selbst ne Drehbank.
Und für DEN ganzen Aufwand rennt mir die Kleine ohne weitere Eingriffe gut genug...

Hi Brian,

ask "Santa" for translation.

He lives in america.

The emulators may be interessting for you.
(your riding style) :wink:

As I understand it wright, they are placed into the fork tubes.

Peter

Brian,

Sorry about that. Seems like we got sidetracked. We where mostly talking about Trischters TT. He said he had a WP UpsideDownFork for his bike and I asked him why he did not install it. I was also saying that http://www.race-tech.com had a cartridge emulator for the TT that could work wonders for offroad riding. I was saying that I could purchase some emulators and ship them overseas or even take them with me on my trip to Germany in June. Trischter said that he's afraid if he updated his fork the stock shock would show it's limitations much more (I tend to agree with that). We think that of you get stiffer springs adjust the ride height to your weight with spring preload spacers, use the right weight oil (I think 10 weight should do) and get the oil level to around 130mm from top without springs and the forks completely compressed (best done with forks removed from bike). You should in business.

I know this is a short recap. Let us know if you have any more questions.

Klaus

Danke schön !